(FemTalk is a series of conversations with various women whose views on feminism I think are interesting and highly relevant. This is the first talk in the series, with Prof. V. S. Elizabeth. Prof. Elizabeth teaches History at the National Law School of India University, Bangalore, and also occassionally offers seminar courses that have their roots in feminism. A self-proclaimed feminist, her thoughts have influenced endless NLS students, including yours truly. Luckily, I got a chance to ask her some questions I had always wanted to. Read on!)
I don’t know if there is anyone defining moment when I decided to become a feminist. I think it was a more gradual process and partly because my father never silenced me but always tried to answer the questions and he was always conscious of trying to treat my brother and I fairly and equally. When I have looked back on my life I realise that I started asking questions when I was probably in my early teens. One of the questions, which I often mention in my talks and lectures, was why are there so few women role models and in such few career options. My father’s reply was I could be anything I wanted to be and that there had been women in history who broke the gender stereotype like Rani Lakshmibai, Chandbibi etc. There are a few such incidents from my childhood days. I started reading feminist literature – works of Alice Walker, Toni Morrison etc, when I went to Mangalore University to pursue my doctoral studies. The English Literature books were just behind the History racks and I had friends in the hostel who were pursuing their post graduate studies in English or in Kannada literature and who were studying feminism. I have always loved reading particularly fiction and in these books and in the discussions we had in the hostel, in our rooms, I found echoes of my thoughts and feelings and so I guess before I knew it I was an ardent feminist.
2. What are your thoughts on feminism within the NLS student community? Has there been some sort of change in the kind of feminism you see among students? I’ve personally always felt that even here, a lot of people are reticent to come out and boldly embrace feminism, and the feminazi jokes are still aplenty. Further, I have also often wondered whether most NLS students only concede to some form of liberal feminism, with many choosing to be ignorant of the complicated intersectionalities that Indian feminism has to deal with. What are your thoughts on that?
I think in NLS there has always been only a small, probably, a tiny group of students who have openly been feminist. In the first five years I think it was difficult for someone who called herself a feminist to make arguments from the feminist perspective and be heard. Prabha Kotiswaran from the 1993 batch comes to my mind. Most of the women students have been hesitant to openly proclaim that they are feminists fearing the backlash or worried that they will not be so popular with their male classmates and friends or because they just don’t think anything is wrong with the world as it is, having accepted the inequalities as a given. There used to be a time when there was a Gender Study Circle and many interesting articles used to be shared and discussed. Sometimes I think people just carried out with the isms and forget that they are dealing with human beings, human beings who disagree with them and maybe are even hostile, but nevertheless they are human beings and when we forget that and the ideology becomes more important it creates too much of conflict. This too has happened in the past. And yes, most people in NLS are ignorant of the fact that there are such diverse feminist perspectives. Most people think of feminism in terms of the most radical feminists and most students who call themselves feminists would prefer a liberal feminist perspective, something that doesn’t radically change the world they live in and are familiar with.So forget about the intersectionalities of Indian feminism.
3. What are your thoughts about feminism and the administration and faculty? Have you felt any discrimination in an institution that commands such respect in India? Further, and more specifically, do you think there are any feminist policies that must be in place in NLS? I know that there was some talk of introducing legal subjects from a feminist perspective that was shot down, not sure if that was specific to NLS though.
Law School is quite a perplexing place. On the one hand at an individual level you can subscribe to any perspective you want, preach and practise it. But the moment you have to engage with the administration from that place then it can be difficult. Law School is not the most gender friendly place. For a long, long time I was the only female faculty, even though there were quite a few when I joined Law School in 1991 but all of them left. Then gradually as a part of a deliberate policy a few women faculty were recruited during Prof. Jayagovind’s time because almost every visitor to Law School commented on the gender imbalance in the faculty.
So far as discrimination is concerned yes I have felt quite often that I have been discriminated against both as a woman and as a non-law faculty member. Though I have proven over and over again competency and capability I have been sidelined when it has come to promotion and selection to some of the important positions in the administration. Excepting the Registrar’s position I have occupied every other position that involves a lot of work and administration but had no perks at all. Some of my colleagues got promotions without even having a Ph.D. Many of them got their Ph.d’s only before they got promoted as Professors where as I along with other colleagues who have taught or continue to teach non-law subjects had to have a Ph.D. to even get regularised. Atleast one of them who had joined after I and the other non-law faculty had joined have gone on to become my seniors in Law School. So whether this discrimination has been because I am a woman or because I teach History I am not sure about.
The kind of responsibilities given also demonstrate the gender inequality. A simple example is the convocation, the duties allocated to women faculty have been flower arrangements, stage decoration etc. Not one of us, to the best of my knowledge, have ever been given the responsibility to receive the CJI or the Chief Guest and escort them to Law School.
I am who I am in Law School because I have fought at every stage for every promotion, and to carry out my work- whether as warden of the women’s halls of residence all those years ago or simply to teach what I do teach in Law School. Simple thing like wearing jeans and Kurta to class and not dressed formally in sari or churidhar-kurta.
Regarding teaching a special course on Feminist Jurisprudence it was not a Law School thing, it was an initiative that the then member of the NCW Ms Poornima Advani suggested which was not accepted, though a syllabus was designed by a group of women teachers from different institutions. Within Law School I have taught the course both to graduate and undergraduate students in the past, though now there are no takers for the course in the student community.
4. What are your thoughts on armchair activism – in this case, armchair feminism, that is, the present generation’s activism being limited to online activities and often nothing more. Do you think that is a step towards the radical feminist goal of consciousness raising, or do you feel that it is somewhat futile without any concrete real-world action? This is of particular interest to me given that I have a feminist blog .:)
Armchair activism of any kind is often criticised. I, however, feel to each her own and we need diverse approaches to change the way people think and to engage in a discussion with a very different kinds of people. When I was younger I was more proactively involved in marches and protests but now I don’t even write so all my activism in on facebook and through my lectures within NLS and outside, wherever I am called to speak. The most important thing though is to walk the talk. I have been challenged so many times by, mostly, my students about the contradictions in what I say and do or think. So it is a continuous process of growth. The one thing I do know is that if one is passionate about justice and equality then it will show through one’s personality. Not everyone is cut out to be a grassroots activist and definitely not all through one’s life. I used to wonder how people can stop being so actively involved but having seen that change in my own life and attitude I know that it does happen. So more than activism I would say that it is more important to internalise these values and walk the talk.
Cherchez la Femme 